October 22, 2005

In Defense of Negativism

So, Jere took a few potshots in my direction today, and while I understand them I wanted to respond a bit.  Because I think this debate that was opened is a pretty fascinating new one for Sox fans; from fatalistically believing the Sox would always find a way to win, we now have fans who fatalistically believe they will always win.

That's why I was so confused and kind of pissed that so many people just didn't believe the Red Sox could win this year. Note the key word in that sentence. It's "believe." That people refused to "believe" this year makes me think they were all full of shit the year before. You know, the people who held up "Believe" signs AFTER we'd completed the comeback in the ALCS and were playing in the pressure-free World Series.

Well, however much 'belief' matters, of course I believed they could win in 2005.  Did I think they would?  No.  Like many others, I believed this was a flawed team, due to any number of factors - injury, construction, decline, whatever.  What I resent is the implication that somehow me thinking that the Sox didn't have it this year somehow makes me full of shit.  See, in this construction of Sox fandom, it almost doesn't matter if the Sox win or lose.  What matters is whether we believe in them.  Well, call me crazy, but to me I'd much much rather be wrong and have them win than be wrong and have them lose.  It makes it even cooler if I believe they'll win and they do - much like 2004, when going into the Yankee Series, I was absolutely positive that this team was the one.  Turns out they were, but I sure didn't think so after Game 3.  Why?  Because what had to happen was exactly that impossible.  If you're one of those who still thought they'd come back, bully for you.  But to try to hold it over other people's heads is one of those bullshit 'I'm a better fan than you' moves that makes me despise a goodly chunk of Sox fandom.

But instead of Sox fans taking on a new attitude, it was the same old crap. One blogger who just won't link to me picked the White Sox to win it all. This person seems like a die-hard fan who was pretty damn psyched about 2004. So why would they take a look at 2005 and say, "Hey, this White Sox club looks like a juggernaut"?

Dunno.  Perhaps because they did (I didn't think so, but I can't really blame anyone for looking at a 99 win team with the best rotation in the AL and seeing a juggernaut).  How is that 'the same old crap'?  Why isn't that simply seeing a team that we think could be better than our beloved Red Sox?  Why would being psyched about 2004 have anything - anything - to do with whether or not I think the White Sox are good?  What, because the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004, I can't believe they could possibly lose it in 2005?  Does doing so make me less of a fan?  How stupid is that?

I'm not saying it's not okay to make a prediction based on facts and what you honestly think will happen. But what the fuck? How about some of that "belief" that got us so far a few months earlier? Is it so important to be right? More important than the Red Sox winning? Because if you think that us "believing" had anything to do with 2004, well, just know that your non-believing had something to do with 2005.

So... what are you saying?  That maybe I secretly think the White Sox (or in my case, the Cards - I predicted they'd win it all before the playoffs started) will in it all, but I have to believe in the Sox anyway?  What does that even mean?  Does it mean putting aside rationality?  And does it alter my desire for them to win?  Because I want the Sox to win every season, every game, every inning, every at-bat.  Does that mean I expect them to go 162-0 and shoot 11-0 through the playoffs?  Of course not.  There's a difference between desire and stupidity.  What I reject is the false dichotomy that has been erected between believing and thinking, or believing and wanting.

I know it's cool to be sad all the time and whatnot, and be all pissed at the happy people.

Listen, I really can't speak for others, but that's just silly.  The implication here is that fans who didn't think the Sox would win did so not out of any type of rationality but because they enjoy being unhappy.  That's a bit counter-intuitive to me.  Perhaps it's just because we didn't think they would.  I realize we all like to think of being a Sox fan as a religion, but... this is getting too close to fundamentalism for my taste. 

I don't want to start (or continue) a blog flame war here, but - having taken a bit of flak for my predictions that the Sox wouldn't go anywhere late in this season (a prediction which, I'll point out, turned out quite true) I felt that Jere's post was a good way to frame this.  'Belief' is fine.  It's good.  It's the point.  But it's not a membership card.  It's not a ranking system.  It's certainly not the end all and be all.  Being a fan is about three things, of which belief is one.  The other two are desire and knowledge.  You want them to win, you know things about them that can either point to a positive or negative outcome.  From there comes belief.  If the Red Sox had fielded the roster of the Royals in 2005, would I have believed they would win it all?  Of course not.  Would I have wanted them to?  Of course.  Which is more important to you?

Posted by 12eight at 18:44:09 | Permanent Link | Comments (20) |
Comments
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1 - They didn't have the Royals' team, they had the World Championship team. I just wondered why more people couldn't have been positive this year. This was a really good team that made the playoffs, and, had they played to their potential, and been healthy, could have won the World Series just as easily as anybody else. That's where I'm confused. Did you know they wouldn't be healthy and wouldn't play to their potential? That's where belief comes in.

These weren't potshots at you. The only time I was talking about you was when I mentioned your name, and I was just responding to something you'd said to me earlier.

Never said you were full of shit. The last thing you quoted me on was about life, not just baseball. Don't want to fight, have had no sleep for days. Sorry this offended you. (Comment this)

Written by: jere at 2005/10/22 - 23:38:31
2 - They didn't have the Royals' team, they had the World Championship team.

I just don't agree with this. On Opening Day 2005, eight of the Twenty-Five were playing for other teams. So they only had 2/3 of the World Championship team...worse, two of those eight were starting pitchers, including a future Hall of Famer. And so by late May, when it was clear that Schilling, Foulke, and Embree were clearly not anywhere near their 2004 form, it was very reasonable for the doubt to creep in. (Comment this)

Written by: Earl at 2005/10/23 - 00:23:02
3 - Plenty of doubt crept in all summer long in '04, but they still won.

And the starting lineup was the same except for the shortstop, and the replacements for the pitchers weren't too bad. No Pedro, but still. (Comment this)

Written by: jere at 2005/10/23 - 00:53:44
4 - Sure the lineups in 2004 and 2005 were the same. But we can all agree that in 2005 the hitting wasn't the problem (in the regular season at least).

And yes, in 2004 doubt crept in as well. Why? Because in the middle of the season they were underperforming. Not because of major injuries, or gaping holes in the team, just flat, frustrating play. But then their main deficiency, defense, was fixed by August 1, and suddenly everything clicked. They were insanely good from then until the end of the season, going 43-18. Lots of reasons to feel great about the playoffs.

There was nothing like that in 2005. They had some massive problems, in both the starting pitching and the bullpen, and hitting can only take you so far. This time, there were no big changes at the trade deadline. And when even the hitting stopped in September, there was plenty of reason to be worried about the playoffs. (Comment this)

Written by: Earl at 2005/10/23 - 01:19:37
5 - What I still don't get is how I felt so good about the '04 season, and I really did believe in the '05 team pretty much the whole way (probably made easier by the fact that at the same time I was rooting for the Tigers... comparison makes the smaller issues of the Sox look nonexistent), and yet! And yet I was completely bitter and cynical about the daily minutae, like usual.

Either that says something profound about my fandom, or it just means I'm insane. (Comment this)

Written by: Boston Fan in Michigan at 2005/10/23 - 06:29:58
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Written by: Anonymous at 2005/10/23 - 14:23:46
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Written by: Anonymous at 2005/10/23 - 16:15:43
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Written by: Anonymous at 2005/10/23 - 17:38:27
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Written by: Anonymous at 2005/10/23 - 18:02:31
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Written by: Anonymous at 2005/10/23 - 22:54:02
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